An Essay Based on the Interview with Pastors Matt Furse and Tommy McMurtry
Introduction
Modern Christianity has, in many circles, been overtaken by two powerful yet deeply flawed theological frameworks: Dispensationalism and Zionism. These ideas—rooted not in the consistent testimony of Scripture but in 19th- and 20th-century innovations—have profoundly shaped how many believers view Israel, prophecy, the church, and the gospel itself. In this multi-part interview between Pastor Tommy McMurtry and Pastor Matt Furse, the false premises and consequences of these teachings are unpacked and examined with biblical precision and pastoral care.
This essay draws from their discussion to clarify the identity of Israel, expose the historical and doctrinal errors of Scofieldism, correct misuses of texts like Romans 11, and call believers back to a Christ-centered understanding of the promises made to Abraham. Embedded throughout are references from the King James Version of the Bible and historical observations that frame the larger theological debate.
I. The Foundation of the Error: Zionism and Misdefined Israel
The heart of the dispensationalist and Zionist error lies in a misidentification of who “Israel” truly is. For decades, Christians have been taught to equate modern, ethnic Jews or the geopolitical State of Israel with the biblical people of God. This misconception leads to severe theological confusion—especially in interpreting prophecy, defining the church, and understanding salvation.
In Genesis 12:3, God tells Abram, “I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee,” which is often used to justify unconditional support for modern Israel. Yet Galatians 3:16 corrects the misapplication:
“Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.”
The promised blessing was not to Abraham’s ethnic descendants, but to Christ—and to those who are in Christ (Galatians 3:29). Therefore, the church—the body of believers from every nation who are united to Christ by faith—are the true heirs of the Abrahamic promise.
II. Scofield’s Legacy and the Rise of Dispensational Thinking
A major culprit in the spread of Zionist theology is the Scofield Reference Bible, first published in 1909. While Scofield claimed to use the King James Bible, he praised the corrupt textual work of Westcott and Hort, and in his notes introduced unscriptural divisions and speculative interpretations.
Scofield’s theology was propagated through institutions like Dallas Theological Seminary, founded by his disciple Lewis Sperry Chafer. Through these seminaries, dispensational theology spread like wildfire across Bible colleges and pulpits. As Pastor Furse noted in the interview, even pastors who reject dispensational salvation still unwittingly promote its core tenets, particularly concerning Israel.
One of Scofield’s most egregious interpretative errors is seen in his comment on Matthew 25:31–33, where Jesus separates the sheep from the goats. Scofield invents a third category—“the brethren” (i.e., Jews)—which is not present in the text. This theological tampering effectively replaces Jesus as the true Israel with an ethnic group still in rebellion against Him.
As Pastor McMurtry observed, this kind of Scripture-twisting is no longer even primarily dependent on Scofield’s Bible—the errors have become embedded in college textbooks, sermon outlines, and denominational traditions.
III. Who Is Israel? Christ the True Seed and the Allegory of Galatians
The central question—“Who is Israel?”—is not a matter of ethnicity, but of covenantal identity in Christ. Pastor Furse’s argument, rooted in Galatians 3 and 4, is that Jesus Christ Himself is the fulfillment and embodiment of Israel, and those who are in Christ are Abraham’s seed by faith—not by flesh.
Paul makes this explicit in Galatians 3:29:
“And if ye be Christ’s, then are ye Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.”
Moreover, Paul says in Romans 2:28–29:
“For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly… But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly… in the spirit, and not in the letter…”
Galatians 4:24 even uses the word “allegory” to describe the two covenants—one leading to bondage (Mount Sinai and fleshly Israel), and the other to liberty (the Jerusalem which is above, spiritual Israel). Thus, the promises to “Israel” are fulfilled in Christ, and received by those who are in Him, whether Jew or Gentile by birth.
IV. Romans 11:26 — “All Israel Shall Be Saved”
Perhaps the most misused verse in this entire debate is Romans 11:26:
“And so all Israel shall be saved.”
This verse is often used to defend the idea of a future, mass conversion of ethnic Jews at Christ’s second coming—without faith, without repentance, and without the gospel. But such a reading directly contradicts the entire flow of Romans 9–11.
Paul painstakingly explains that not all who are of Israel are Israel (Romans 9:6), and that salvation has always been about God’s mercy and calling, not bloodline. He cites Hosea, where God calls a people “my people” who were not previously His people (Romans 9:25–26).
The correct reading of Romans 11:26, as Pastor Furse explained, is this:
“All Israel shall be saved” means all of God’s elect—Jew and Gentile alike—who are in Christ. It is not a prophecy of universal salvation for ethnic Israel but a declaration that God’s true Israel—those born again through faith—will be saved.
To believe otherwise would require embracing a second covenant, or salvation by race—which directly contradicts Romans 10:12–13:
“For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek… For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.”
V. Spiritual Israel vs. Ethnic Obsession: Letting Go of the Flesh
Much of dispensationalism clings to the fleshly descendants of Abraham. Yet Paul, himself “a Hebrew of the Hebrews” (Philippians 3:5), declared:
“What things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ… I count all things but loss… and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ” (Philippians 3:7–8).
To exalt Jewish ethnicity above the gospel is to build a false hope. Jesus declared in John 8:44 that some Jews were of their father the devil—not Abraham—because they rejected the truth.
God’s promises were never dependent upon bloodline but upon faith in Christ. As John the Baptist warned in Matthew 3:9:
“Think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.”
VI. Political Zionism and the Misguided Alliance with Modern Israel
A major concern throughout the interview is the blind political allegiance many Christians have to the modern State of Israel, often promoted by media, seminaries, and politicians. As Pastor McMurtry noted, this mindset has led to “Jew worship”—elevating the modern nation above Christ and aligning the church with wars, foreign policy, and silence about the gospel out of misplaced reverence.
Yet Scripture warns us clearly:
“We wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers…” (Ephesians 6:12)
The support of Israel is often rooted in Scofieldian misreadings of texts like Genesis 12:3 and Romans 11:26. But when these verses are properly interpreted through the lens of Christ and the gospel, it becomes clear that supporting unbelief is not supporting God’s plan.
Worse still, Christians are often taught not to evangelize Jews—lest they reject the gospel and fall under delusion. This directly contradicts Paul’s entire mission and Christ’s command:
“Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature” (Mark 16:15).
“To the Jew first, and also to the Greek” (Romans 1:16).
VII. The Shekinah, the Holocaust, and Religious Counterfeits
Another important clarification is around the term “Shekinah,” which is often used in charismatic and Zionist circles. It is not a biblical word, nor is it found in Hebrew manuscripts of the Old Testament. It derives from Jewish mysticism and refers to the feminine aspect of God, which is deeply problematic and incompatible with biblical theology.
The conversation also highlights how the term “Holocaust” (a transliteration of holokaustos, meaning burnt offering) is ritually significant, often used in contexts that elevate Jewish suffering above the atonement of Christ. This, combined with the veneration of sites like the Wailing Wall and refusal to preach the gospel to Jews, represents a form of anti-Christian replacement theology, where Israel replaces Christ as the object of reverence.
“Thou shalt have no other gods before me” (Exodus 20:3).
“There is none other name under heaven… whereby we must be saved” (Acts 4:12).
VIII. The 144,000 and the Tribal Question
When asked about the omission of Ephraim and Dan in Revelation 7, Pastor Furse rightly acknowledged the mystery but emphasized that God will keep His promise to Abraham, and that the symbolic meaning of the 12 tribes may reflect a spiritual reality more than a literal genealogical registry—especially since modern Jews cannot trace their lineage to Abraham, as both Israeli citizens and tour guides admit.
As Romans 9:6 reminds us:
“They are not all Israel, which are of Israel.”
And Acts 17:26 reminds us:
“And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth…”
IX. Closing Counsel: Grace, Patience, and the Power of Scripture
The final words of the interview are pastoral and wise: approach others with humility and patience. Whether it be fellow believers, pastors, or teachers influenced by Scofield theology, the path to truth often takes time. As 2 Timothy 2:25 exhorts:
“In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth.”
We must not treat any one man as the guru. Let the King James Bible be our authority, not Scofield, Ryrie, MacArthur, or Hagee. As believers, our identity is in Christ—not in political parties, race, or inherited tradition. Let us stand boldly for truth but always seasoned with grace.
Key Points Summary
- Israel is defined spiritually in the New Testament: those in Christ are the seed of Abraham (Gal. 3:16, 29).
- Romans 11:26 (“All Israel shall be saved”) refers to all the saved in Christ, not future mass ethnic salvation.
- Scofield’s notes are not Scripture and contain dangerous errors—many of which contradict the King James Bible itself.
- Modern Jews cannot trace their lineage to Abraham, and ethnic identity cannot save (Phil. 3:3–8).
- “Shekinah” is not a biblical term and has mystical, extra-biblical origins.
- Christians must preach the gospel to Jews; withholding it is spiritual negligence (Rom. 1:16, Mark 16:15).
- “Judeo-Christian” is an oxymoron—Judaism today follows the Talmud, not the Old Testament.
- Political Zionism has led to idolatry in the church, distorting foreign policy and doctrine.
- True revival will come only when we return to Christ, not a political state or genealogical fantasy.
Final Summary and Conclusion
This interview and the discussion surrounding it reveal a pressing need in the church today: to recover the Christ-centered understanding of Israel, rooted in the promises of God and the fulfillment found only in Jesus. Dispensationalism and Zionism have hijacked biblical eschatology and distracted the church from her true mission: to preach the gospel to all nations and to proclaim Christ as the fulfillment of all the promises of God (2 Corinthians 1:20).
Let us abandon man-made theological systems and return to the plain teaching of Scripture. Let us recognize that Israel is not a geopolitical entity, but a people redeemed by the blood of the Lamb. Let us not exalt ethnicity, politics, or tradition above Christ. For in the end, only those who are in Christ will be counted as Israel, and truly, all Israel shall be saved.
“For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly… But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly… in the spirit…” (Romans 2:28–29)
“If ye be Christ’s, then are ye Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.” (Galatians 3:29)
